[Tactics] Toughts about Space Warfare

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Hello there~

After talking about it with about 5~8 people already, i want to make an overall idea collection and a few facts about Space Warfare.

The general Reason for this is, to have people think about the possibilties of PvP in Dual Universe. We don't have much information on it and most will be theoretical and speculations. But one phrase holds true :

"Math is your best friend in space, but at the same time your worst enemy."

The general rule of tumb in Space Warfare will be, it happens rarely in open space. What do i mean with open space?

Anywhere not close to a point of interest, is open space ... which is empty.
Why? Simply said, it's hard to catch someone in an space simulation that is realistic. They can just run from you~

And here we are on our first point.
1. Speed

Given that you can travel as fast as you want in real space, we should be able to do that too ...
But sadly we're limited by the server power of a game, which will most likely require Dual Universe to have a max speed. Let's set that max speed to 10, just a number without a real denouncer which is 100% of the max speed.

A simple math comes now. If we travel with a speed of 10 and the enemy trys to catch us with a speed of 10, will he be able to catch us?
- if he comes from behind = nope , not as long as we just keep traveling~
- if he comes from the front= yes, but he will shot past us like a bullet after a short interaction of weapons with a speed of 20. Based on our feeling of his travel speed, his aim should be lousy at the start and quite accurate for the short meeting. But then he will be gone and trail behind us.
- if he comes from the side, cutting our vector perfectly= he will seem to stand still close to us, as he's the same speed and on the same vector ... which will make it into a long fight, as we can't flee from that without outsmarting our enemy (slowing down for example or doing an unexpected vector change with an incredible acceleration force, that is higher then his).

Based on this, an enemy will need to exactly know our vector/ destination and speed. Even positioning himself in an spot, where he can then adjust his own vector/speed to merge with our own at a given point of interception. Which will require a great deal of information and cordination with others and some simple rocket science anyone can look up. This makes interstellar travel, somewhat safe. Atleast if there's no weapons that can slow you down significantly. Let's talk about that later. But generaly, it will be hard to fight someone in open space, when he doesn't want to.

So we just got lucky and an newbie pirate tryed to catch us and failed. He's on our tail, out of weapon range (and pretty pissed) but he can still see us and decides to chase after the booty. Now we get to the next point, which is a hard one.

2. Points of Interest

Here we go~
What happens now is tricky. There's a multitude of things that might happen at a PoI, let's list some scenarios.
- if he comes from behind= we will need to slowdown to go into the planet atmosphere. Given air friction, even if we don't slow down and crash into the atmosphere we will reduce our speed to 1 or lower then 1. He will catch us now and a fight is sure to be held in aerospace.
-if he was stationed around the planet= he will watch us go into atmosphere and then follow. Hard to escape someone that already had time to accelerate in aerospace~
-if he was stationed on the planet= fighting time~ we want to go there ... need to do stuff at that planet or we wouldn't travel for hours or days to it.

There's a multitude of ways to get out of these situations, most require us to flee or not to go to the PoI. A few ways would require us to have an higher max speed in aerospace then the enemy or atleast an higher acceleration. But generaly it would be "get out of his field of view and hide or run", if we feel outgunned in an fight for our life.

And now we come to the third point and what will be most of the fights, outside of lucky gangers catching us on any PoI.

3. Defending battles

The first rule of space warfare was, that math part. The second one is that space is rather safe and the third one will be quite honest.

"You only fight, if both partys want to fight."

Given that it's easy to just run forever from a fight. If not both partys are interested, a real fight wont ever happen ( or rarely). That means, if we fight we want to fight over something like a PoI or to defend our citys and things like that. The enemy wants to fight to fulfill his goal and we want to fight to hinder him.

What will the fight be? Here we can do a few scenarios again, as sadly this is way too much to note down. Even more then the possibilties of how PoI fights would go, if all you want is to escape. Well lets get through it ...
- Both partys meet at an incredible low speed = A massive fight will happen and victor will be whoever has the better fighting force and tactic, while numbers seem supreme here. They only make it easyer.
- Both partys meet an an high speed = Well ... for the defending side this will suck. Now you need to turn and the enemy has time to attack whatever you wanted to defend. Not a wise choice.
- One party is slow, the other fast= Either the defenders or the attackers will be slow. Let's say we tryed the previous tactic and the attackers slowed down to fight an space station or bombard an facility from orbit. Now the defenders will fly towards them and slow down, having they're engines face the enemys backside. Best scenario would be ... the defender slows down enough and everyone turns they're front to the enemy and the "slow fight" will happen in orbit. A bad scenarios would be if the enemy turns towards the slowing down defenders and shot the engines. Which would make them not slow down enough and crash into atmosphere, makeing this a really messy aerospace to space fight. So whoever is the fast part here, is in trouble.
- Both partys meet at high speed or one is slower then the other, in open space= You just want to defend yourself and your fellow impiral citizens. It's basically the same as with planetary defense, just that running is an option ... as long as the enemy can't do an attack run and slow down any amount of your friends ships. Fighting will either be a quick meetup and then breakup or lots of attack runs with wide arcs of turning, to catch the other fleet at an intercept course again. There might be the possibiltie to slow down to defend friends that are lagging behind or to bash any enemy that falls into the same category. But then a slow to slow fight probably will be the next part of the fight, with no one capable of breaking the engagement easily this would be a long exchange of fire
4. Slowing down others

Well ... we don't know if it will be possible to slow down other ships with some kind of weapon. But let's say it is, this would make most fights more difficult to escape or effectively use tactics that are in our favor (as long as we aren't the ones slowing down the enemy, which will be favorable).

--- Work in progress ---
So I am going to assume there will be things like "web" or "scrams" in Eve to force combat and eliminate a combatants ability to escape as well as slow them down significantly enough to make combat viable In the lock and engage combat system. Most likely there will also be intradiction constructs that you can place on ships to disable an opponents ability to disengage. Without any modules of this type space combat would most likely be impossible in this game as everyone will kite each-other and never truly engage in combat. You'll have single player fighters capable of destroying the largest capital ships because the guns will never track it. Im very excited to test these mechanics on beta release.
Yeah. Some kind of "slow-down mate!" weapon will probably be in.

But don't expect to hit someone in space, if he doesn't want to get hit.
Space is BIG and it's incredible hard to catch someone if you aren't placed perfectly for it.

Which also correlates to speed.
Try flying really fast and hitting someone :3. Most humans only think in earthbound speed terms.

I expect, anyone that wants to shot at you. To fly at snail pace, while you fly at snail pace too.
Atleast for space travel speed, that is a few thousand km/h max. Probably less.


Let's say you fly at 500km/h with your big ship. Leisurely into battle.
And someone flys at you with a speed of 1000km/h with a smaller more agile ship.

Your combined speed will be 1500km/h at the point of action.
Which means about 0,41km/ second of distance will be gained at that moment of weapon range engagement.
If you ship is 400 meters long, the fighter will rush past you in about 1~2 seconds.

Neither him or you will be able to fire for long at each other. If the max range of weapons is something like 10km or so. That would make 48 seconds of engagement time. If it's 1 km ... it's 4,8 second of engagement time.

So you see the dilema about speed in space. People need to fly slow to even fire at someone.
Imagine someone flying with 20000 km/h and you want to catch him, but luckily you come in front of him. So you decide "i will fly only at 1000km/h so i can turn and follow him!".

Combined speed of 21k km/h. Which gives us an engagement speed of 5,8km/sec ...
If your weapon range is 10km, that means less then 2 seconds to aim and fire your "slow-down mate!" weapon.
+ The fact that someone that fast, only needs to marginaly correct his course, so you miss him altogether :3. (if he can see you).

Not to say how you got the info about him and how hard it would be to accurately calculate where he's flying too. But you get it.

Space battle will mostly happen when two partys want to fight each other :3.
Air and Land fights are more likely to be "pirate" terretory.

So :3 enough math for this morning, need my coffeeee.

Space battle will mostly happen when two partys want to fight each other :3.
Air and Land fights are more likely to be "pirate" terretory.

So :3 enough math for this morning, need my coffeeee.
yeah unless they add some type of grav well type of thing maybe similar to bubbles in eve (ill use that example since seems like a lot on here play it) most of the space fights are gona be around planets or space stations or similar maybe mining belts if there are mining belts you can fly a ship into..
There will be asteroids and moons you can mine too.
So yeah, that's a contested POI too.

But in the end we will see what tools NQ will give us.
But i clearly doubt we will be able to effectively pull out people from their fast tracking speed in space, easily.

Imagen what that would cost ... in energy and material alone.
well it really depends on how/ if they introduce ftl/warp type travel moving that fast you would have to use a computer to help you not miss I doubt they would say it is so high speed it can correct course on the fly so if that's the case any type of a grav field that it didn't account for would throw it off and either cause you to miss or cause the ship to stop to recalibrate the jump.. but now we are getting so into it that its just guesses lol

I believe we will probably need to design ships most efficient in different environments. Ships which are most effective in mid to high orbit, and those most effective in deep space.

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